Sunday, 22 May 2011

Tenbury Futures: The People's Plan - Your Designs Wanted..

Last month we successfully balloted the local community and visitors to the town on what they would like to see happen with Tenbury’s old Cattle Market site. Now via the People's Plan we’re inviting everyone to contribute to design ideas for the site [See 'Download' links top right of this site].

The initial Tenbury Futures survey* returned nearly 300 replies with some definite wants, some conclusive not-wants, and some ideas on which there were mixed views.

* You wanted:
Those in the survey's 300 replies mainly wanted the re-use of the old infirmary as a museum and tourist information centre, the construction of a riverside walk and café. Then came additional parking and an area to accommodate Tenbury’s many events, popular with locals and visitors – such as the unique mistletoe market, the apple fest, the food festival, the fair and the popular car boot sales. Also rated highly was improved and enlarged recycling facilities.

* You didn't want: 
There was very little support in the 300 replies for a single large retail supermarket development and the majority opted for ideas that would benefit the wider community. There were mixed views on small-scale retail or commercial development and on a hydro-electric micro-generation plant for the town.

The People's Plan:



Drawing skills:
There’s no need to be good at drawing though; what we want to see is your ideas and rough designs. Once the survey is complete (there is a closing date of 30 Jun 2011) we will collate the responses and look into having plans drawn up based on the most popular site layouts.

Community-wide feedback:
We’d like as many people to participate as possible and are hoping for feedback from individuals, schools, community groups, churches etc – in fact anyone who is interested in the future of Tenbury's Cattle Market site.

The plan:
We have drawn up a simple site plan [not to scale] for participants to complete [below] to get the ball rolling, the information is accompanied by some sketches of possible options – although these are only ideas to stimulate debate.


[Click image to enlarge]

Sample site plan

These ideas also potentially help generate a set of facilities that compliment Tenbury's existing ongoing developments [Regal Cinema etc] while helping to enhance both local community facilities and local tourism further.


Particularly significant could be a new or supporting venue for our unique mistletoe market, food fair or applefest while also providing a new outdoor performance space, riverside cafe and market site or designer-maker units/shops. The site may also provide a space for a new bespoke Community Centre too.

[Click image to enlarge]


Tenbury Cattle Market: Artist's Impression - Angle 01


Artist's Impression - Angle 02 [Some riverside trees omitted only for clarity].

Community Trust:
The development could potentially be created by a community-driven trust in the same way as Ludlow's successful Millenium Green re-development. Their trust has a long list of local members who both help raise monies and help with the running. In addition, they've raised thousands of pounds to assist with the re-development and secured grant monies to help fund ongoing work.



Returned Ideas:
These are some of the returned visual ideas that have been passed to the Futures group. 
[Click images to enlarge]
From Mr K, Tenbury Wells
Mr K whose points include that the RBB Building should be refurbished as the new location for the Tenbury Museum. Additionally, Mr K believes that the site could be used for a new social centre and large festival site.
From Mr R, St Michaels, Tenbury Wells
Mr R suggests that nr Durban in South Africa they created a riverside esplanade with a beautifully designed complex which housed all kinds of craft industries such as jewellers, artists, potters, booksellers, bars and restaurants - all selling cheap/reasonably priced services/products.
[Click image to enlarge]
Mr S, Tenbury Wells
Community boating on a raised pool
Mr S wanted to follow-up comments on the Tenbury Blog by creating a quick visual of an idea that had been raised some years back about a possible raised slow-moving stretch of water for a community boating area. The idea was apparently dismissed at the time [and this really is just an additional bolt-on idea - no formal funding ideas offered-up] when it was raised. But in the light of attracting additional tourism and monies to the town's local shops - this sort of idea could potentially assist. Much like Ludlow where [despite the Teme being SSSI] town council-run boats have been hired-out on the river by the popular car park underneath the castle. Not only could this be open to the public but it could be used by local clubs and societies for kayaking etc - for example, the local scouts, maybe Bockleton Hall outdoor persuits centre and Tenbury High School's outdoor club. In these days of uber health and safety though and people litigating at the drop of a hat this sort of an idea might be a hard sell - but it's an idea and ideas are the currency here.

Combined with micro hydro power generation
As a postscript though it could also be made to combine with micro hydro power generation at the weir end. This incorporation of micro hydro has already been given planning permission at an existing weir further down the River Teme  as well as the weir re-build ongoing upstream on the Teme at Bromfield - specifically to incorporate micro hydro electricity so there are clear precedents for this. The power generated [one of the areas where govt devt grants haven't been totally pulled] could power some or all of the Cattle Market development maybe. It could even generate some spare capacity to feed in to the national grid - at which point it could also help pay for itself too by receiving hydro electric feed-in tariffs.
[Click images to enlarge]
The weir being rebuilt at Bromfield on the River Teme
for hydro electric power generation [taken May 2011].

The public information board placed next to the weir re build.
It claims it will create enough consistent power to supply the equivalent
of 420 average homes.

"Your plan is very good"
Mr J, Tenbury Wells [from returned forms]

[Click image to enlarge]

Mr S, Orleton ~ Solar PV Panel Shadeports

Solar PV Shadeports
Mr S explains that the US has been using 'solar shadeports' for car parking since 2009 and that this sort of power generation scenario could be applied to the Cattle Market site [and/or any open car parks in the town] too. Although this is only a rough visual, solar arrays of the scale above could generate up 124272 kWhrs.per annum. There is a chance that finance towards development of this sort of scenario may be possible too. Using new technology it's even possible to get 240v 50Hz direct from these sorts of panels. With solar feed-in tariffs this sort of scenario could also either help additionally pay for itself or maybe even earn the site monies if a surplus to the local requirements were generated.
G.A. suggests a blend of 'Futures' ideas with a Superstore.

G.A. suggests keeping the RBB Building but allowing Tesco to build on the site - creating a mix of refs which may appeal to a broad range of Tenbury's residents. They suggest that the car park be made available by the supermarket to assist with local festivals, Mistletoe Sales and Carnivals etc too.


An Alternate Teme Bridge and Relief Rd.
[Click image to enlarge]

Suggested replacement bridge and relief road - Tenbury.

Possible Semi-Pedestrianised Teme St

Possible Teme St One Way Scheme and Semi-Pedestrianised Area
Allied to the New Relief Rd Idea

Possible Traffic Light Array: Crow Turning

Possible Traffic Light Array for Option A [Above]

As discussed on the Tenbury blog recently, the old Teme Bridge in Tenbury has been identified as needing substantial repair work to the tune of millions of pounds just to make it safe. The discussion suggested that as the old bridge was the 'lifeline of the town' and that we should really think about securing easy future access to the town as opposed to short term sticking plasters on the old bridge. To do so could be to divert the majority of those millions and put them towards a plan that better allowed Tenbury to flourish and grow into the future instead of constantly dealing with the bottleneck that is the old bridge. The idea being that the old Teme Bridge [which is a unique Scheduled Ancient Monument] would then have the stresses of increasing HGV usage, increasingly regular traffic jams due to the 'bend' in it and the resultant increases in structural problems on it removed as traffic transferred to an alternate modern crossing of the Teme.

Such a crossing and relief road would cost many more millions - that's clear. But maybe there comes a time when the local authorities need to take the long view and invest accordingly to secure the long term future of the town.

As a spin-off, the old bridge's use could be scaled-back so that it accommodates pedestrians, cyclists and emergency vehicles only. This would make this end of the town much quieter and the combination of this, the picturesque river location and the unique bridge architecture could have a dramatic effect on local tourism. In fact it was mentioned on the blog that there might be similarities to the situation at 'Ironbridge' in terms of tourist draw [not that the Teme Bridge in Tenbury is quite in the same league but we understand it's one of only 2x SAM's which are bridges with curves in them in the UK].

The points on the rough drawing refer to: 
1. Burford Hospital. Pulling out of this blind corner can often mean risking an accident or worse at peak times with vehicles speeding towards the hospital largely out of view. Hence adding a roundabout here and a [raised] relief rd across the fields to a new bridge could serve a number of purposes.


2. The Old Teme Bridge. This could be 'retired' and actively help increase the town's tourism draw if a new bridge and relief rd were put in.


3. The Crow Hotel Turning. All traffic that passes over the present Teme bridge passes this way around the tight corner - often creating jams with longer HGVs. If the relief rd were plumbed-into the B4204 that comes into the back of the town from Rochford then it could [option A] be diverted to this junction where minor works and a traffic light system could enable a suitable traffic flow. The idea illustrated above using traffic lights may actually allow a wider swing/turning circle for HGV's than the present two way corner at the Crow Hotel.


Alternatively [option B], the traffic could initially come onto the B4204 and then via a new relied rd to the south join up to the Bromyard Rd near the 'S bends' near the business park. With the addition of minor works and a new mini roundabout at the junction of the Bromyard Rd this would take away from the town centre the mainstay of HGV traffic. On the theme of tourist attraction, Teme St could then potentially be semi-pedestrianised too [while still allowing access to the Cattle Market etc] - thus creating an airy and  attractive public realm space or more overt 'tourist zone'.


4. A New More Accessible Teme Bridge. This could be in one of various modern formats  - cantilever etc or strictly just governed by cost and utilitarian needs.
Some Videos For Your Consideration:

BBC Whistleblowers: Supermarkets



Channel 4: Supermarket Secrets




The End of Suburbia [Documentary Film]



The Story of Stuff




The Transition Movement



Transition Conference 2011

A New Town Square

Mr L, Burford, Tenbury
Mr L suggests a combination of new Town Square with central monument, space for market stalls, training allotments for local schools, parking and a new orchard.

New Central Plaza Celebrating Tenbury's History

Ms P, Burford Suggests a Central Plaza area.

Key to above concept.
Ms P from Burford says that the Tenbury has become very traffic orientated with no central focal point and increasingly busy routes through the town centre. The redevelopment of the former old cattle market provides a key focal area to encourage this and make the most of the River Teme and it's historic bridge.

A central walkway through the area linking all the components and river wlakway/plaza containing seating areas, uplighting and architectural plants would provide a mixture of hard and soft landscaping highlighting and creating key focal points within the site. Planting could compromise of raised timber planters containing Phormiums, Pampas Grass and other architectural species such as Yucca's and Stipa species [grasses].

Low lighting could be used to highlight key paths with surfacing compromising a mixture of slab paving, timber and gravel creating unique character to the the courtyards and site identity. 

Within the centre either a central water feature or monument/sculpture or art piece could be incorporated to reflect Tenbury's history or the site's former uses.

The site could almost become a gateway leading the tourist to some of the highlights and history of Tenbury such as the Pump Rooms, Regal Theatre and the Butter Market.

116 comments:

  1. When is this going to happen? it looks great to me .

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  2. what a load of nonsense

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  3. how many responses will there be this time 200 wow big deal come on tescos let it come

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  4. How many responses for the Tesco ? Was it five ?

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  5. tesco is coming so tenbury futures get a life
    u are a con u are nothing but a jump up bunch of idiots

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  6. Ah, we're talking figures.. Ok.

    The development proposal by Tesco [rejected in Jan 2011 by MHDC's Planning Committee] was contested by over 800 individual planning objections from local people. This clearly had an influence on the final outcome/rejection. These numbers accrued over a period of a few months if I recall as the planning application had to be open to public consultation.

    The Tenbury Futures Survey gathered ending early Mar 2011 was all gathered in approx 1x month only. In just a month on this occasion over 300 returns were gathered. The supermarket aspect was just one of the numerous suggestions but clearly elicited the strongest rejection when an accrued 210 of [an eventual] 300 said that they didn't think a large supermarket on the site would be good for Tenbury.

    Pretty conclusive stuff really.. It's clear that a large swathe of the local community [looking across both refs above] feel that the site should be developed in a blended way - meaning maximum benefit to the local community..

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  7. Yesco
    Either put up, or shut up!

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  8. went into tesco ludlow today. was greeted with miserable people who never smiled or said a word as i walked past. do you really want that in tenbury? or would you rather have local shops that care bout their customers?

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  9. Would you smile if you worked for Tesco?

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  10. The cattle market site could be so much more than just defaulting to a large supermarket.

    Something [or a combo of solutions] that could really benefit the local community.

    There is a nice example of such a community venture at the Dinham Wier site in Ludlow. They've raised thousands of pounds and secured grants etc to get that site purchased and then re-developed as a unified community. Here's an example of how we might consider developing the site in Tenbury and a vehicle to potentially purchase the land and develop the site..

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  11. if tenbury futures get their way there will be no future for tenbury
    will the last person to leave turn the lights out

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  12. who going to buy the site for this idiotic idea

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  13. The Bumblebee says it's a community thing. I've just had a look at the Dinham website, it all seems like it could work like that. With the right organisation and some collective willpower why couldn't we do the same on a larger scale in Tenbury? It's not beyond the realms of possibility if it's been done before.

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  14. Whats idiotic about it ? What ideas have you got ?

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  15. wots idiotic is a supermarket next to that brokendown bridge - just a time bomb. tenbury doesnt need it

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  16. where is the money going to come to buy the land
    money does not grow on trees

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  17. Monies and [Some] Possible Methods

    a. forming a Community Interest Company;

    b. approaching the landowner to discuss in what circumstances he would be able to sell the land and what return he is looking for;

    c. applying for funding, including loan and/or share capital from the public, Heritage Lottery funding for the old infirmary, etc;

    d. discussing partial use of the site as a community centre, festival site, etc with MHDC, discussing the cafe with possible tenants, discussing the small retail units with possible tenants, etc

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  18. bumblebee is living in cloud cuckoo land

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  19. I suspect that they said that at Dinham Weir in Ludlow too before they secured grant funding and local community support to both buy the site and re-develop it. It's now a success story.

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  20. Some great ideas ,i hope you succeed in developing the site.

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  21. I think some of these ideas are wonderful, but I keep coming back to the maths, which I can't get to work. Unless there is a major benefactor, who will buy the site and invest in the infrastructure & development and not worry about the level of return, I cannot see how this will work.

    It seems in the modern age, nothing generates income like a supermarket (except perhaps some restaurants). The planning obstructions to using this site for a supermarket are now so few why would an investor (unless they are a philanthropist) settle for anything less.

    I've previously suggested a weir to raise the level in the Kyre Brook as it looks such a mess when the water is low. The Environment agency will try to block anything that impedes the flow of water, in addition the SSI status of the River makes development (in the water) a very high hurdle to jump.

    The boating idea is wonderful, but this no longer happens at Ludlow (been closed about 3 years)as they couldn't find anyone to run it due to lack of income and unreasonable overheads (insurance, maintenance etc).

    I though Dinham Weir was in trouble because they need to spend £250K on urgent maintenance?

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  22. well said wr15

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  23. The boating idea was one that I just thought I'd 'float' by folks [sorry - I'll get my coat] ;-)

    More later..

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  24. The raising of a slow moving pool is really just a satellite idea to the examples put forward regards the main site's development. It's there for discussion really and in doing so we've already suggested that there were issues/caveats to overcome with this [pool] idea when mentioned above.

    It's clear from the Tenbury blog though that the previous supermarket plan was regarded by it's proposer as the smallest viable development. The comments raised at the planning meet in Jan when the plan was rejected though [and by others at the time/since] suggested that the plan was still far too big. As someone says on the blog - a 'catch 22' by the looks of it. So large supermarket use of the cattle market site doesn't seem so clear cut or inevitable and that's just one of a few sticking points.

    In terms of the boating - the pool idea could primarily be for for orgs who already have the kit and insurance to use such a site as mentioned above. It was done before at Ludlow for the public though so it could potentially be done again with careful management of costs/resources.

    The Ludlow Dinham Weir scenario is that the iconic weir there needs repairs. From the Star article though no one seems to suggest that they're 'in trouble'. In fact they knew that repairs would be on the cards when they purchased the land and seem to be addressing the need and seeking additional funding sources with a pre-planned timescale in mind.

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  25. I think THS have recently been using the Burgage stretch of the Teme for canoeing. (I know they asked for permission from the riparian owner, but I don't know if it happened)

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  26. Just tried to download a peoples plan sheet from the top of the page, but it said "file not found"

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  27. IS IT RIGHT THE RINGLEADER OF TENBURY FUTURES LIVE OUT OF THE DISTRICT APPOX 3.5 MILES DOES NOT PAY COUNCIL TAX TO TENBURY , MALVERN AND WORCESTERSHIRE BUT IS IN HEREFORDSHIRE AND IS TRYING TO DICTATE WHAT SHOULD GO ON THE AUCTION
    YARD MAYBE HE IS HOPING TO MAKE LOADS OF MONEY OUT OF IT

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  28. Are you talking about Mr Chase by any chance ? Im sure he lives in Herefordshire

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  29. Oops - problem apostrophe - plan sheet seems fine now re downloads..

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  30. I didn't think there was a 'ringleader' re Tenbury Futures. As we'd said to Tenbury Town Council recently:

    1. We're a proactive group of Tenbury residents/business people who want to see the town sensitively and sensibly developed in a sustainable manner, with an emphasis on the unique local circumstances of Tenbury.

    2. We're asking the community what they would like on the Cattle Market site, not telling them. In addition we're helping showcase the community's ideas for the site in the shops and online to instigate associated further debate.

    3. We have no constitution or membership - rather, we are just a collection of local people who have similar aims and who wish to see the site developed for the greater good of the community. Only a small minority are local shopkeepers and many are simply concerned residents of the town and surrounding settlements.

    4. Once we've been able to assess what the community at large want for the Cattle Market site then we aim to form a community organisation to take the most feasible plans forward.

    Taking the plans forward will involve:

    a. Forming a Community Interest Company [CIC] uc like the group who have bought, secured funding and grants and then renovated the site at Dinham Weir in Ludlow. There is clear precedent for this sort of organisation and we will talk with those at Dinham Weir about their working methods.

    b. Approaching the landowner to discuss in what circumstances he would be able to sell the land and what return he is looking for.

    c. Applying for funding, including loan and/or share capital from the public, Heritage Lottery funding for the old infirmary, and any associated funding that may come with the use of modern renewables and/or sustainable development on the Cattle Market site.

    d. Discussing partial use of the Cattle Market site as a community centre, festival site, etc with MHDC, discussing the cafe with possible tenants, discussing the small retail units with possible tenants.

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  31. i like g.a's visual above. it seems to have all the dynamism and angular rchitecture of the cubists but the colours are more reminiscent of the fauvist movement. as for the idea i'm not convinced though

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  32. tenbury futures are living in cloud cuckoo land

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  33. All of the measures above have got a clear precedent [i.e. similar ideas exist already - like the weirs, sustainable buildings and the solar PV 'shade ports'].

    As such - nothing 'cloud cuckoo' about them - indeed they're already out there and there may be devt funding by various means for all of them.

    Instead of thinking that there's just the one solution for the Cattle Market site with supermarket build - Tenbury Futures have been active in promoting and visualising local people's alternate ideas - all of which are possible..

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  34. rubbish bumblebee

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  35. Its rubbish to you, because you cannot comprehend the logic of it.

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  36. It's rubbish to them because all they want is a horrible looking tesco store which has no benefit to town or residents. Apart from destroying the town and emptying the residents pockets with their inflated prices after the competition is gone.

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  37. Tesco will bring a breathe of fresh air to the town to tenbury if all those people that dont want tescos where are they shopping the town dead bowketts is quiet because [moderated, personal ref removed] tenbury futures is a complete con [moderated], it will never happen so give up now at tenbury does not need you you are the weakest link goodbye the shops that are against where should not be in business if they dont want compelition.

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  38. Er - I think I get the gist of what you're trying to say but not 100% sure..

    As we've said before, we're not telling people to do anything - merely providing a platform here on this blog to highlight the many different ideas coming in from the local population in respect of the Cattle Market site [a range of ideas if you look].

    Most folks I know do a mix of shopping in the local shops and then doing a 'supermarket' shop [inc. myself as I've said before]. The Tenbury blog explains that the Ludlow supermarkets [Aldi etc] are roughly just 16 mins drive away or [apparently] you can get your Tesco goods delivered for just £3 anyway to Tenbury. As we've supermarkets so close already and even home deliveries are cheap as chips - it does raise a reasonable question:

    "why do we need another supermarket if there's such easy access already - when the Cattle Market site could be so much more for the local community"?

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  39. bumblebee you are not getting the point tenbury is a dying town because thanks to people like you tenbury as got to move with the times or it will be deceased

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  40. you are a hyprocric bumblebee pensioners can not do their shopping out of town instead being rip off by the cartell of tenbury bowketts and spar do u realised bowketts and spar dont care about tenbury only themselves one question why did tenbury futures did not put a appication in years ago when the last threat of a supermarket in 1999 i think because u knrew you could not get the land no money so you are bringing tenbury to the point of no return so bumble with all your facts.. [moderated].

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  41. Mmn.

    Dying Town
    Ok, there's actually plenty of towns who have adopted an alternate strategies to their development and actively resisted the encroachment of large supermarket build. You just have to look at the transition movement for starters and places like Totnes etc. It goes to show that there is another way if enough people are willing to chip in and make it work.

    'A hypocric'
    Our neighbour is a pensioner and he gets his shopping delivered to him as well as meals on wheels support etc. The mechanisms of support are quite broad if you stop to look. As such no one need to be in a situation -pensioner or otherwise- in which they can't get cheap shopping from nearby supermarkets.

    1999 Supermarket scenario
    'Futures' was formed by local people in Jan 2011 after Tesco's last rejection at the planning committee to highlight alternate local ideas and opinions of the many hundreds of local people who wanted better for the site.

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  42. Well said Bumblebee - keep stinging them.

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  43. why did not form years ago when the land had become a eyesore not wait until something comes along that you bumble do not like tenbury futures and [moderated] you are wasting your time we do not want u you stung me once then bumblebee died that what happens to bumblebees

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  44. I think we may be getting a little hung up on slandering a well known and much beloved member of the national fauna here.. Amusing as this is, It's really just an unproductive diversion.

    As I think I explained [above] though, I have no idea what the scenario with the CM site was much before Tesco's plans were roundly rejected in January 2011. The 'Futures' organisation galvanised into being post Jan 2011 as hundreds of locals wanted something better for the CM site and wanted a platform for their proactive ideas to be put forward and discussed [this blog]. As such, what happened re the site in the past re who did what/when has little bearing on what hundreds of locals want now..

    As L.P. Hartley said: "The past is a foreign country: they do things differently there."

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  45. Stung again !

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  46. tesco is coming you can fight it as much as you like tesco is coming.

    tesco tesco is the best
    bumblebee is a pest
    when tesco is here to be bless
    tenbury wells will be best

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  47. Dont mess with me I am the Bumble
    As I will make you all tumble
    Tesco tried but got refused
    All of Yesco were bemused

    Bumble stung them one by one
    He had Tesco on the run
    Bye Bye Tesco you have lost
    You cant rip Tenbury off with the cost .

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  48. Well I have to say,
    I'm most amused today,
    This must be a highbrow blog,
    As with your rhymes you leave me agog!

    TesNO or YESco - it's all academic,
    As supermarket build will with highstreet growth stem it,
    If you really care for the local economy,
    You'll say no to old Leahy's monopoly,

    Read these words and heed me well,
    Supermarket build will be Tenbury's death knell.

    Leahy's child to hundreds will bring a frown,
    So don't let Tenbury become another clone town.

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  49. Bumble bumble you are tops
    Your the person to pull the stops
    Tesco came but didnt succeed
    Tenbury futures will proceed

    Yesco-Tesco petition to sign
    Of no use , not sent on time .
    Go away Tesco your not needed
    The peoples plan has succeeded

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  50. Excellent stuff :-)

    Thanks to all for their words here [whether 'for' or 'against' supermarket build on the CM site]. If anything it shows [whatever our personal opinions] that we're all human still.

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  51. yes to tesco tesnos you have lost concede defeat do the decent thing and give up and get a job
    maybe you can be a trolleyboy bumblebee

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  52. :-)

    I have previous experience as a shelf stacker but I somehow don't think I'm going to be needing that experience again in the short term.. I certainly wouldn't work for the likes of Tesco anyway as they have some very questionable practices when it comes to dealing with their staff.. Don't take my word for it though - see the website put together by their own staff.. http://www.verylittlehelps.com/

    Having said that, some of their staff have a pretty low opinion of their customers too it would seem http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1120763/Red-faces-Tesco-dozens-staff-post-insulting-comments-customers-internet-forum.html .

    So let's see - frustrated and unmotivated staff, [some] staff clearly so fed up with the place that they decide to mock their own customers online and finally Tesco's latest annual profits took a nosedive..

    All in all not a happy organisation by the looks of it..

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  53. Someone posted a set of comments about being a Tesco employee - not one of the many disgruntled that appear on the 'verylittlehelps' website seemingly.. Could you post it again please as it was lost in moderation unfortunately after taking out personal refs to individuals.. I think it was something about Tesco giving monies to the community - a bit like the staff at Spar were in the news recently for and I guess like the many cheques Bowketts display..

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  54. Too right Bumble - take all the personal references out. This isn't about personalities - it's about what large numbers think.. For example when over 800 local people voted against a superstore last January and in the Futures survey when nearly 300 locals voted to use the cattle market site for something that could benefit the wider community instead of just another bog standard clone superstore.

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  55. get your facts right i am a tesco employee
    and we are treated very well bumblebee
    tesco is a brillant company and do give alot of community support face it you have lost and your plan b is a complete utter madnest where tesco will bring life back into tenbury so if you do notlike it (moderated) MOVE THE REal TENBURY PEOPLE WAnts to move foward if u want a face to face confrontation i will meet u if u want it is you that is bringing tenbury down tesco will bring more jobs and dont argue that it wont (moderated) give up now and concede

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  56. Ah that was it - thanks..

    I think it's the % raised for store size passed to the community that we might look at. Take the example of Spar recently - they raised £20k over 4 years. For such a small shop/staff compliment this is indeed an impressive feat. In real terms the comparison would be the equivalent of [say] Tesco Ludlow raising approx £500k just at that one store over a period of years.

    It's local people's ideas and suggestions that the Futures group has based their 'PLAN B' on [via the Futures feedback forms]. Many hundreds of local people want anything but a large supermarket on the doorstep - they think the 3 supermarkets that we have already in the town and the easy access to Ludlow supermarkets or cheap delivery costs are more than enough already.

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  57. In terms of supermarket jobs the Daily Mail did a good article recently:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1363719/Tesco-Sainsburys-accused-hollow-job-creation-claims.html

    Needless to say Tesco don't come up smelling of roses..

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  58. bumbleee why are you moderating your true name out are you scare of people knowing who you are

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  59. In reply to anonymous [no name supplied - we don't know who you are]:

    1. We don't allow personal refs on the blog sorry.. They'll always be moderated out. It's about discussion primarily and not individuals. The Tenbury Blog has the same policy.

    2. Secondly the Futures group is a large group consisting of a mix of concerned local residents and local businesses. I'm just one member of the larger group and happen to moderate the blog. We're happy to discuss ideas on here as a group but the ideas and refs here are no one person's.

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  60. It's a bit rich comin on as 'anonymous' and asking peopel to put their names out there

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  61. Some excerpts from the 'very little helps' site. It's Tesco's own staff complaining about poor in store working conditions, lack of basic cleaning hygiene/rotas and staff bullying:

    Apr 2011:
    the filth in my tesco, is getting worse dust piled on top of shelves and fixtures has made it an unsafe enviroment to work in, in my area 4 people have reported dizy spells frequent cold symptoms stomach troubles and naucious feelings, reported to line manager, night manager and store manager with little response apart from "its terrible isnt it" health and safety contacted and we are told 1 week tesco have to respond, any one else have any health issues with there tesco, also bullying at work is rife, trying to get rid of staff so they can live up to there promise to the goverment of creating 9000 (hollow) jobs, in competition with asdas 10000, tesco supermarket for the people - rubbish- come on i used to enjoy my job....

    Reply:
    yes,the shops are minging,but when no-one has time to clean them,we cant expect anything else really..as for bullying,theres a thread somewhere regarding this issue,seems to me its pretty rife and all part of being a tesco employee

    Find all that and more here:
    http://www.verylittlehelps.com/index.php?action=printpage;topic=11122.0

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  62. well bumble bee u r being personal u r only here for your own gain concede tesco will win

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  63. own gain? what is bumble gaining out of this personally? NOTHING

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  64. Please detail what myself and the Futures group will benefit from then - I'm curious..

    Apart from helping to attain a solution to the Cattle Market site that will benefit a wide cross section of the commmunity and Tenbury's tourism. ...And not slowly close down our highstreet food shops by plonking a large Tesco in town I can't see quite how I personally or our group will benefit from our campaign[s]..

    Are you saying that I'm going to benefit from my/our stance financially? I'd like to know in what way and by how much if that's the case - we could always do with a few more pennies in the coffers so it's be nice to know in advance :-)

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  65. tesco will brng life back into tenbury
    Tenbury can not keep going as it is, saturday afternoon 2pm everything is closed
    completition works wonders .
    bank holidays closed
    sundays closed
    the sweet shop should be open on sundays for the tourists during the summer
    shops should be open on bank holidays this is how tenbury is out of touch

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  66. How can a supermarket be the solution to all the town's ills (actually that's rhetorical - it clearly can't can it)? It's not going to be some kind of panacea and to think it will be is to be naieve at best.

    I do agree that the town could be more dynamic in the way that it deals with weekend shoppers. The town itself (chamber of trade etc) surely needs to agree an effective strategy to offset the quietness on a saturday afternoon though.

    Expecting another supermarket (on top of the 3 that we've already got) to change that situation though is asking a lot - maybe the impossible even..

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  67. convenience stores are not supermarkets
    you dont do a complete shop at spar u could not afford to do it

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  68. Some people do substantial shops at Bowketts though - the branded merchandise is on balance cheaper than the 'big 4' supermarkets can retail it.

    Spar is a major supermarket chain and indeed has it's new 'EuroSpar' format (of supermarket size) and as for Co-Op - well they're all over the place big and small.. As such (anonymous) is quite right to describe Spar and Co-Op as supermarket chains - as is Nisa's Bowketts.

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  69. You cannot do a full shop at Tesco (Ludlow) either. The availability of bread is shocking .Three times now i have been in and could not get the loaf i wanted.

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  70. We as a family buy one or poss two loaves in our 'big' shop and then tend to buy as needed in Tenbury. We do so at either the bread shop, Bowketts, Spar, Co-Op or the vegetable shop as there's so much choice.

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  71. people plan b
    you have lost
    tesco is coming

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  72. Keep dreaming .... Tenbury futures will succeed.

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  73. It think anonymous is jumping to conclusions a bit here..

    There's a vast amount of process that's now got to take place over a matter of months. The application has to be displayed and feedback gathered from the community. There needs to be public letters to the planning dept either in support or against the application and finally there needs to be a planning committee meet to discuss all of these in the round. Many of the councillors at that meet last time [the majority] voted against Tesco's plans as they were aware of the 800+ people who'd written in objecting..

    I'd guess that it could top 800 objections this next time and this among other issues will again make the councillors think very carefully..

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  74. crackpot bumblebee
    are you on day release from the local nuthouse

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  75. :-)

    Anonymous you remain anonymous unfortunately - we have no idea of your identity. We'll listen to your comments of course but as Tesco pay people to sit in their head office to monitor blogs and social networking - you could easily be on their payroll just being paid to criticise community ventures like ours..

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  76. who getting waspey bumblebee

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  77. buzz of bumblebee tenbury does not need you
    the real truth is it people like you destroy shopping centres not Tesco

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  78. Stop talking cobblers!

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  79. i agree bumblebee is talking cobblers

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  80. Anonymous - please explain your point re shopping centres - ideally citing examples.. I don't understand your point..

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  81. Bumble speaks the truth.. Tesco naff off to somewhere where people want you.. Tenbury certainly doesn't.

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  82. your crackpot plan B why plan B what happen to plan A because it was a failure plan b will fail to
    plan Z might work when u get there and tenbury will be doing well with tesco encouraging people to shop around the town
    REMEMBER BUMBLEBEE tenbury as got to move forward you think tesco are bad guys they do more for communites than you think

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  83. Blimey, where to start.. Tesco in particular has a terrible track record for affecting high street trade [in a negative way]..

    There's loads of sources out there evidencing this.. The ref I put on the Tenbury Blog was this one:

    The New Economics Foundation [NEF] produced a report called Ghost Town Britain" in 2001 in which it found:

    "a new edge- or out-of-town superstore in a market town or a district centre causes local speciality shops and convenience stores to loose 21-75% of their market share, forcing many to lay-off staff or close."

    Whether you want to believe the reports or not the reality is clear. Tesco moved into Llandod in recent years and within 4 months of trading hit highstreet trade in the town dramatically.. Here's a blow by blow account from a highstreet shop keeper in the town [from a letter sent to me]:

    “In the first 3 months they have devastated the local high street to the tune of a 35% to 64% downturn...They are actively targetting the local Boots store [35% to 40% down] and the local Co-Op [formerly Somerfield 65% down]. Most other retail businesses are experiencing between 15% and 30% decline... some 4 months after Tesco opening.The biggest problem has been the reduction in footfall, people are using Tesco as a one-stop shop and not walking or even driving into the old town centre... I believe that in your case [Tenbury] both theTown Council and the Chamber of Trade are currently in favour - the question they must ask themselves is WHERE is the increase in customers that Tesco will happily predict going to come from - hardly Ludlow or Leominster.”

    You could of course ignore the many reports about Tesco out there and claim that this individual [above] was wholly wrong.. You'd be sticking your head in the sand if you did though..

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  84. I just remembered [Mr or Mrs Anonymous]..

    You're a Tesco employee, you said on one of your previous comments above and the style of your posts have always been consistent.. Are you paid to do stuff in the shop or are you one of the guys in Tesco's head office who they pay to monitor and add pro Tesco spin and hokum on blogs of small community organisations like ours?

    It's clear that you have an obvious vested interest in this situation after all you're in the pay of Tesco. Myself I'm simply a concerned resident - one of hundreds locally who would like to see the CM site developed for benefit of the community.

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  85. if i remember you are a crackpot not a concerned resident bumblebee
    no one in their right mind by shares in your stupid idea

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  86. tesco knows where their customers will come from
    because the clubcard shows where the people live
    this shows there is need to be another supermarket in Tenbury
    IF I REMEMBER it was crackpots like you in ludlow who tried to block tesco years ago but fail thank god by saying that tesco would destroy ludlow but it never did ludlow is booming.
    so there is no argument tesco will be good for tenbury and the local community

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  87. Mmmn. Then why Mr Anonymous did the Shropshire Star run an article about the shops at the top [non Tesco] end of the town losing money as shoppers and trade 'evaporates'?

    Parking costs and shop ground rents might be part of the picture but another aspect is that trade can polarise to the bottom [Tesco] end of town out of the tourist season. This of course didn't happen in the same way pre Tesco.

    A quote from the article says: “Thursdays, Fridays and Saturdays are the busier days for us, but Mondays to Wednesdays are terrible now. The trade is just finished up this end of the town.”

    Link: http://www.shropshirestar.com/news/2010/05/13/town-suffering-as-trade-evaporates/

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  88. I SEE in the local comic the shropshire star
    few months ago up in north shropshire tesco wants to move out of town and set up outside the town with a new store
    The people are up in arms they actually want to keep tesco in town once again this is proof you are wrong bumblebee

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  89. Yet again Mr Anonymous the actual evidence proves your thin research skills.. The Shropshire Star reported the scenario at Whitchurch in which the in-town Tesco want to move out of town..

    Whatever you think of the paper itself I guess that the core story is Tesco's refusal [yet again] to listen to the local community.. It would seem the land's available for it to enlarge where it is but Tesco just want to keep taking more and build out of town instead. They've clearly already done enough damage in town as this quote illustrates:

    "Bill Smith, former chairman of Whitchurch Regeneration Forum, claimed since its arrival in Whitchurch, Tesco had already “destroyed” the town centre."

    All the community actually want is damage limitation in reality - it's not [as you suggest] about the town being big supporters. Out of town shopping is universally regarded as having an even more detrimental effect on the highstreet than in town [which is normally bad enough in itself]. Tesco [suprise, surprise] ain't listening though - their business is chasing the cash - not listening to communities they've already knackered and then making awkward compromises.

    Tescopoly and many other organisations discuss the negative impacts of out of town supermarkets and add:

    "Planning law relaxation allowing the massive penetration of retailers into out-of-town retail park sites in the 1970s and 1980s, with catastrophic impacts on town centres."

    Clearly that won't fit with your world view though so I guess your standard response would be to regard all of those resources as 'crackpots'? But.. Your list of 'crackpots' is really adding up now though: 800+ local people who formally objected to Tesco last time in the Tenbury area, 300 people who wanted a blended solution on the cattle market [from the futures feedback] and now various organisations and govt reports.. Had you ever stopped to think that all of these people/refs might just have a point and that your opinion might be less rounded that you thought?

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  90. there is more people in tenbury that do want a tesco they are scare to name theirselves ie in spar and bowketts were force to sign the letter of objection there were pressurised
    bumblebee dont denied it
    where do u do your shop u been seen out of town dont denied either

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  91. bumblebee TENBURY PEOPLE ARE GETTING FED UP WITH YOUR ANTI TESCO OPINNIONS GO AND MOVE TO THE FALKLANDS IF YOU DO NOT WANT A TESCO YOU [moderated]
    CRACKPOT

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  92. So you're saying there's people who have been pressured to sign objections in Spar?

    Spar
    Show us the evidence. Get the people who had their arms twisted[?] to explain their experiences of it on this blog. You're all grown ups at the end of the day though - surely a simple 'no' [like you would with a door to door salesperson] would have made these people's personal angle clear? I find it hard to believe that Spar employees forcibly stood over people insisting on signatures at that time though..

    Shopping Habits
    If you look back through all and any of my posts [and indeed many in the Futures group] over the last year or so you'll see ref after ref on my shopping habits.. I've always been clear and up front on them and they are from a mixture of sources. We do supermarket shops in Leominster or Ludlow as they're so easily accessible already [or sometimes we get things delivered online for a small fee of about £3 or less]. Additionally we use Tenbury's great bread, vegetable and butcher's shops among others as the quality tends to be much better than supermarket versions. If you check you'll see I've never claimed anything different.

    Opinions
    Last time I checked it was a free country - we aren't living in Zimbabwe or somewhere such. We're all capable of putting our own opinions up here - both for and against supermarket use of the Cattle Market. It's be pretty odd if everyone had exactly the same opinions too.. The only thing that will get moderated on here is personal refs or jibes [as they would on the Tenbury Blog]. Let's face it - these are not just my opinions anyway - there's hundreds of locals who share the same view.. I can hardly claim to be unique in this..

    Nice to see the 'crackpot' ref back though - I suspected it would do - at least you're consistent..

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  93. So who r all thes people who want a tesco then. Evyone I spoke 2 doesnt want one

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  94. The town should have a referendum on this. It's the only way to agree "the town's" opinion on this issue. There's clearly as many 'for' a supermarket as theer are 'against' one.

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  95. tesco go away u av lost

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  96. Do tesco stock crackpot?

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  97. If it bought them good hard cash then probably. If it meant having to listen to communities and compromise their global retail aspirations then maybe not.

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  98. bumblebee is it right that you do not live in tenbury and pay no taxes to the town and distict and you aretrying to dictate what is best for tenbury people
    may be tesco might move into your village instead
    and that would be a disaster for tenbury

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  99. I'm not trying to dictate anything - at least I wasn't when I last checked.. I am offering up an opinion though - as are many on both this and the Tenbury Blog. I don't think that could be called 'dictating' though - leave that to the likes of Mugabe etc - hardly the same thing..

    I do shop weekly [with ref to the above post] in the town though and as a local shopper I feel that the opinions of myself and other local shoppers should be taken into account in any Tesco scenario - which I think is both reasonable and to be expected.. Additionally, the 800+ people who objected to a Tesco last time came from the local area [not just the town] so people who use and support the town from the surrounds are taken into consideration as part of the planning process. Everyone has the chance to say to MHDC's planners whether they support the plan or not - it's enshrined in the law thankfully..

    I do agree with you though Mr or Mrs anonymous on one point.. Out of town superstores are even worse than in town - albeit marginally so. The evidence for this is overwhelming - you just have to look at the excellent ref to Whitchurch you gave for starters..

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  100. everyone can comment on here Bumble to be fair. I'm unsure about what I think with the scheme but to your credit you've put all my comments up still

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  101. tesco u r not wanted in tenbury ,pick on somewher else

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  102. u have agree that it better in town than out of town so with your ideas u could push it across the teme.

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  103. They're both about as bad as each other in the Tenbury scenario - the outside version marginally more so [as I said above] though. I don't see a huge difference affects-wise on Tenbury's high st though I'm afraid - they'll both still be negative. The CM site is at the edge of the town's recognised urban area..

    I refer back to the ref I made above:

    The New Economics Foundation [NEF] produced a report called Ghost Town Britain" in 2001 in which it found:

    "a new edge- or out-of-town superstore in a market town or a district centre causes local speciality shops and convenience stores to loose 21-75% of their market share, forcing many to lay-off staff or close."

    Of course you could say that you don't believe the report - in which case you'd need to take it up with the NEF..

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  104. true facts are this
    tenbury will be better off bumblebee u are nothing but a liar tenbury people want change not you ,do u work or are u a benifit cheat

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  105. You're clearly trying to elicit a quick annoyed response off me anonymous but it's not going to happen I'm afraid..

    I know that Tesco pay people in Head Office to try to stir up comments on community blogs etc.. Whether this is you or not you'll need to try harder I'm afraid..

    For example - explain exactly why I'm a 'liar' - I'm keen to know.. Is it the many refs available that I bring in to the posts that don't show Tesco in a good light maybe? Are those refs liars [or crackpots - that's your other fave]? Maybe the 800+ people who formally objected to the last Tesco plans in Tenbury are liars or crackpots? Maybe the hundreds of people who got back to the Futures survey stating their preference for a community blended solution for the Cattle market are 'liars' too?

    Essentially I can see that you'd love a Tesco in Tenbury [but then you would as you're in the pay of Tesco - they pay for the bread and butter on your table]. I'm not convinced that the town does though - some do and some don't it would seem..

    Remember also that no Tenbury residents at all got up at the last planning meet in Jan to support the Tesco plan. But the hall was very verbal in it's delight when the plans were thrown out though - maybe that's an indication of what Tenbury actually wants too..

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  106. So anonymous - what's your brief at Tesco Head Office then? Is it 'keep chivvying away, try anything you can to throw them, try to discredit them, try to make them sound unreasonable and out of touch with their public? That seems to be the general tone of your comments..

    After all we're just a small community group - easy pickings for someone paid by retail giant Tesco to add 'static' to their blogs.. Keep it up anonymous but be aware that we know that you're in the pay of Tescos. Don't be too surprised if we don't take you too seriously from here on too.

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  107. are you threatening me tenbury futures
    have i got you on the retreat
    you think a small community base group can beat tesco remember this i am watching you bumblebee on this blog full of lies and deceit the people mood is changing towards tesco

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  108. all so predicatble anonymous - yawn. you seem a right piece of work being disrespectful to others online. not the best advertisment for someone who is being paid by tesco

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  109. you do not want the truth bumblebee
    at least i am making u work by replyingto me
    by the way i dont work for tesco that was a was a red herring so i asking you to aplogised to tesco
    because u are completey out of touch with the large majority of people in tenbury
    so you carry on playing your games u r the disgrace AND U DONT CARE ABOUT TENBURY U R JUST OUT FOR POWER

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  110. U do work for Tesco i have seen you colecting trollies

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  111. "so i asking you to aplogised to tesco". I'd bet Tesco would be glad that u r not with sentence structure like that!

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  112. anonymous stop taking the mickey out of me tesco will come and i will get a job there on the chickien counter .

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  113. tesco are coming
    bumblebee you have lost since the laST appication the shops are quieter this proves the point if all you anti tesco shop in town according to your figures saying there no need for another store
    you are as bent as a 5 bob note
    where are they in tescos elswhere
    your figures do not add up
    no doubt you will do more spin
    [moderated] [moderated] [moderated]
    you go away as in the flight of the bumblebee you hypocrit

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  114. Sorry - we don't understand a word of this unfortunately. Try writing in something resembling English and we might stand a better chance..

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  115. "where are they in tescos elswhere"

    wot does rthis mean? maybe its a new religion - maybe we shud worship anonymous?

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  116. it means i dont go 2 skool

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